tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post3352881285984890203..comments2023-10-26T04:38:06.297-04:00Comments on TeachPaperless: Rubrics Were GreatAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14091328599818819777noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-10797294248537431062012-05-22T02:36:53.660-04:002012-05-22T02:36:53.660-04:00This essay is pompous and pseudo-intellectual nons...This essay is pompous and pseudo-intellectual nonsense covered by a thin veneer of classical references. <br /><br />"Let your students play in class."<br />They are already doing that. That's the problem.<br /><br />"Give them open-ended assignments with no possible correct answer and no single conceivable way to get the assignment done."<br /><br />We don't need to teach kids in this generation to be comfortable with ambiguity and challenge authority. This is not 1950. These kids are post-moderns. They have had "there is no such thing as absolute truth, there is no one right answer, follow your heart, believe in yourself, and everyone's point of view is equally valid" drilled into their heads since they were old enough to watch Disney Cartoons! Now they need to learn to respect authority and follow directions. They must learn that there are rules of spelling and grammar. (You cannot write a letter or a report just any way you want: you have to follow certain rules.) Make sure your sources have been peer reviewed. You cannot just slop together something: you have to meet specific requirements.<br /><br />"Don't explain things to your students, rather talk to them and allow what they say to teach them how they think."<br /><br />How is that going to work in math class? Or history? Or science? Lets see how they do on their standardized tests if we don't explain DNA, or electron orbits, or how to take a derivative. Lets just let them play and talk and listen to what they say. That's just bullshit. They will just sit there and swap ignorance. They will not spontaneously talk about content. They will spontaneously talk about their sex lives. <br /><br />"Teach your content through conversation whether f2f or online. Teach your content through trust. And don't give your students a list of things that suggests what you want, rather allow your students to figure out what it is that they want."<br /><br />What they want is to sit and talk about their social lives. All the evils of standardized testing were forced upon us as a reaction to this kind of non-sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-69752442907795480792009-08-24T09:31:44.301-04:002009-08-24T09:31:44.301-04:00I agree with Mr. Sessums' comments: the rubric...I agree with Mr. Sessums' comments: the rubric is limited only by the imagination of the creator. Rubrics and student creativity do not have to be mutually exclusive. While they are given a suggested task, students in my classes are free to propose any type of assignment they feel will meet the requirements of the rubric. As for the dread of objectivity in grading, I always make 25% of the rubric a subjective grade called "risk-taking" that simply asks whether or not the student challenged herself.SenorGhttp://twitter.com/senorgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-62916504423336600942009-08-23T11:57:18.504-04:002009-08-23T11:57:18.504-04:00This is interesting. It seems that in assessing, i...This is interesting. It seems that in assessing, it will be difficult to get away from teaching students to work to please the teacher. I have to ask what assessment tools you'll be in the future?Ms. Edith Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12125736436813900541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-21629338604064003752009-08-22T22:30:49.100-04:002009-08-22T22:30:49.100-04:00I think Understanding By Design's rubrics are ...I think Understanding By Design's rubrics are particularly artful.Tom Hoffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08577165613934129833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-22760817801056074782009-08-21T16:20:08.765-04:002009-08-21T16:20:08.765-04:00Suppose we compare rubrics to John Searle's Ch...Suppose we compare rubrics to John Searle's Chinese Room thought experiment (it could be a Latin Room instead). A bunch of students is in a room with a set of instructions, dictionaries, cribs, and tabs for converting snippets of Chinese symbols into snippets of English symbols. Chinese in, passable English out. Where does the 'understanding' happen?<br /><br />If what we are after is 'understanding' in the mind of an individual student, then we're better off using The Pirate's Code: "more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules."<br /><br />A well-constructed rubric should include examples of how to subvert the rubric.John Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478899585526834264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-23352551141601343262009-08-21T16:02:28.935-04:002009-08-21T16:02:28.935-04:00@Christopher... I think you are right that it is p...@Christopher... I think you are right that it is probably inappropriate to damn rubrics in a broad stroke. That said, the vast majority of uses I have seen suggest do the same thing with student work: broad stroke praise or damnation of student work without a conversation about the actual substance of the work. If a teacher is assigning numbers without and justification or conversation why, it suggests to me that they aren't really thinking about or telling the student anything about their work...Jasonhttp://www.techsavvyteacher.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-21862087925055149752009-08-21T15:59:27.986-04:002009-08-21T15:59:27.986-04:00As a teacher who uses rubrics a lot in her classro...As a teacher who uses rubrics a lot in her classroom, I found this post very thought-provoking. I agree that rubrics can be cookie-cutter ways for teachers to create a checklist of what needs to be done. However, that is not the fault of the rubric, but rather the person who creates it. <br /><br />My rubrics are never the same from year to year. I am constantly revising them as I watch my students complete projects that can sometimes take over a month to complete and realizing what is most important for them to learn from the project. As in backwards design, I am constantly thinking of my objectives for the project and include only those objectives in the rubric. Rubrics also take the guesswork out of what a successful project will achieve so students can focus on creatively completing the project without wondering if they are on the right track.<br /><br />If we want to move away from standardized tests, standardized assessments and isolated academic study into integrated project-based learning that allows for higher-order thinking, collaboration and application of academic skills and knowledge, what is the appropriate assessment to use? How will we guide our students through the process of completing such a project without using a test? Even a portfolio needs some kind of way to rate it.<br /><br />Until a better solution comes along, rubrics provide that kind of structure and guidance while allowing for creativity and open-ended products--if they are well written. <br /><br />I do agree that our students should not be mindlessly completing tasks to satisfy a rubric. <br /><br />Thanks for starting such a lively discussion and having the gumption to 'come out and say it.' :-) I'm sorry that your experience with rubrics has been so negative!mshertzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02995665815087186953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-69109587595039115642009-08-21T15:07:32.862-04:002009-08-21T15:07:32.862-04:00Wow, this is an interesting conversation- and I wo...Wow, this is an interesting conversation- and I would have to agree with osme points-those being it depends on the assignment and the task; AND students should help create and develop the rubric they will be using to assess whatever task or assignment the rubric will be used for. No 2 rubrics should ever be the same. And students should use the rubrics as a self-evaluation tool as well as a means of reflecting on their process. Of course this is only my opinionbrophycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03465762112252688790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-41458468409352568132009-08-21T13:41:04.048-04:002009-08-21T13:41:04.048-04:00Very thoughtful post!
My perspective on rubrics...Very thoughtful post! <br /><br />My perspective on rubrics has always been they were misused when solely a summative evaluation tool. They have much more power when used formatively, where students can reflect on their scores (however subjective they might be) and revise and improve their work. And that formative feedback ideally should come from a variety of sources, not always from the teacher. <br /><br />Unfortunately I believe 99% of our use of rubrics in education is summatively, with no chance for students to improve after receiving the feedback.Evan Abbeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07212555176636864127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-23844926074616353362009-08-21T11:52:05.261-04:002009-08-21T11:52:05.261-04:00First, a disclaimer: I was one of the people engag...First, a disclaimer: I was one of the people engaging Shelley in the discussion late last night. Thanks to him for taking the time to explain his point of view in a forum where it's more easily possible (140 chars at a time isn't right for some things).<br /><br />As I hope I made clear last night, I agree that rubrics aren't necessarily the best choice, that they're definitely not an across the board solution, and that there can certainly be horrible rubrics. <br /><br />I also welcome your challenge to use better/individualized assessments wherever possible. But, given the realities of many teaching situations, those assessments are challenging if not impractical to implement. Rubrics can be a useful option, both for guiding students, which has its place, and for conveying information to other stakeholders in student learning (most notably parents). <br /><br />Along those lines, I agree with one of the other commenters that when grades have to be given, a _good_ rubric can be useful. The example I offered of a good rubric was http://is.gd/2rgqQ This rubric is not perfect. It does things like assume the superiority of "the" scientific method (which is a whole different debate), but I contend that it does a good job of setting clear process goals. <br /><br />And though following such process guides (or checklists) will by no means guarantee anyone a Nobel prize in physics or a Nascar win, not following those guides will almost certainly guarantee not winning either prize. <br /><br />So, a question I would welcome exploration on... Does the utility of rubrics in general depend on a what specific (disciplines) rubrics are used for. My experience is teaching science, and though I emphasized writing skills and interdisciplinary learning, I am by no means a skilled/experienced humanities teacher. It would seem to me that trying to create a rubric for a piece of creative writing could be disastrous. On the other hand, a checklist/rubric for assessing the lab process skills needed to do more creative explorations in science does seem useful to me. <br /><br />It would seem that a rubric (or set of rubrics) as the only assessment tool is not the answer. But, I'd also argue that there is no one-size-fit-all set of assessments. Can rubrics be one tool in a toolbox of assessments, that skilled teachers use when appropriate? I think they can be.Josh Sheldonhttp://twitter.com/joshsheldonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-80808172088561592942009-08-21T11:26:35.838-04:002009-08-21T11:26:35.838-04:00Hmmm...
Your position disappoints me in that you r...Hmmm...<br />Your position disappoints me in that you reduce the notion of rubrics into a black-white issue (reductio ad absurdum, really). Such fallacious reasoning doesn't reflect the open and courageous stance that you want to project. <br /><br />You also cite little evidence beyond your own experience that suggest rubrics must be a certain way.<br /><br />Aren't rubrics only limited by the imagination of their creator? <br /><br />As you are clearly aware, there is no one way to teach anything wisely. Sometimes, not always, rubrics can assist students to think clearly about what they are asked to do. They can be extremely reflective, meaningful, and metacognitive if used well. <br /><br />Doesn't it depend on how they are designed and what they are used for?Christopher D. Sessumshttp://eduspaces.net/csessums/weblognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-47093464599529475672009-08-21T11:16:48.058-04:002009-08-21T11:16:48.058-04:00Hi Shelly... I think you are right on here... Asse...Hi Shelly... I think you are right on here... Assessment should be so much more conversation rather than assignment of numbers, which is seemingly more arbitrary than any non-rubric score. Great post!<br /><br />@Cathy... I think that still creates the problems that Shelly is talking about. I like and utilize peer review of work but in the end, if I am truly the master of my content and classroom, I need to be the one evaluating and grading work with a criteria that I employ... students are usually either too harsh or not harsh enough...Jasonhttp://www.techsavvyteacher.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-81723229969597769902009-08-21T10:55:37.671-04:002009-08-21T10:55:37.671-04:00What about allowing students to design their own g...What about allowing students to design their own guidelines for assessment? In the end (unfortunately) most teachers have to assign grades. If we let the kids determine what kind of performance gets an A, could that be the solution for teachers who are often asked to justify grades? They would at least then be able to point to criteria that put the kids into certain grade categories, but the students would have been able to push the limits of possibilities for the assignments--perhaps well-beyond anything the teacher initially envisioned.Cathy Stutzmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-10531189419129998822009-08-21T10:48:17.693-04:002009-08-21T10:48:17.693-04:00Well said. Rubrics are an attempt to make somethin...Well said. Rubrics are an attempt to make something "qualitative" into something that's "quantitative" so that we can assign a number or grade to it. Even though there may not be one "correct" answer, rubrics can give us some sense of a degree of "rightness" or "wrongness". <br /><br />In my previous career as a band director, I would have my students record themselves playing excerpts of the music we were learning. I would then record my comments and suggestions on ways that they could improve, or what I thought they were doing particularly well. BUT, I also included a rubric in an attempt to quantify for them (and I suppose their parents) my expectations, and more importantly what I was hearing: rhythm, intonation, expression, tone, etc. etc. It also made me more objective so that I wasn't playing favorites (whether or not I was aware of actually doing that). And ultimately, it gave me and them a NUMBER or GRADE to put in the gradebook.Jim Dornberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09140413976397328837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-5076448885324893442009-08-21T10:45:08.103-04:002009-08-21T10:45:08.103-04:00What if students create their own rubrics as mine ...What if students create their own rubrics as mine sometimes do? I never use a teacher-created one.berrendscihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05386004665103163785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-22520397027818572882009-08-21T10:37:33.072-04:002009-08-21T10:37:33.072-04:00I've said this many times: Rubrics don't m...I've said this many times: Rubrics don't make writing good; they just make writing the same. <br /><br />Until originality and humor show up on a rubric, I don't have much use for scoring guides...Jameshttp://lhshonorsla9.ning.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7029419017923677229.post-6498784968553687982009-08-21T10:33:30.630-04:002009-08-21T10:33:30.630-04:00That is beautiful. Seriously.That is beautiful. Seriously.Mark Pullenhttp://mrpullen.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com